DISCIPLESHIP:
- ...begins prior to conversion. In today's context, conversion is part of the journey and will often require years of participation in a local congregation before a person goes public with his or her faith. New missions are already figuring out how to do church in such a way that makes this possible for those who are just learning about Christ.
- ...involved participation in a faith community prior to conversion. Churches will need to recognize the importance of relationships as the currency that moves the unreached and unchurched person toward genuine discipleship. Members of those churches spend more time connecting with unchurched people, loving them genuinely even if they don't become believers right away.
- ...often involved participation and experience with the Christian community prior to conversion. Non-believers have even gone on mission trips with believers and along the way have come to know Jesus. Churches that understand this are proactive in creating experiences for those on such a journey.
- ...involves participation in service prior to conversion. Churches that understand this encourage their members to invite unchurched friends to participate in service to the community. The very act of serving in a Habitat for Humanity project along side churched Christians may be used by God to move someone toward faith in Christ.
- ...does not require "club membership" in the church before someone is permitted to usher, play in worship band, sing in a choir or even read the scriptures aloud in worship. Churches that understand this trust that the very fact that an unchurched person wants to participate in serving, in mission, or in worship - may expose people to the means the Holy Spirit uses to bring someone to faith.
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9 comments:
"Churches that understand this, trust that the very fact that an unchurched person wants to participate in serving, in mission, or in worship - may be the means the Holy Spirit uses to bring someone to faith."
since you asked what i think:
this is telling me all we gotta do is add some new means of grace (now called a means of discipleship(?)) through which the Holy Spirit is expected to work to make disciples. And now these new means are more about the works people do to create faith? If this is where the mission development leaders in the Texas District of the LCMS really want to go, they need to be honest about their lack of trust in God to work through the means He has already given and compare their new ideas to Scripture AND the Lutheran Confessions and either repent or kindly excuse themselves. We are here to bring Jesus to people and to bring people to Jesus. The Holy Spirit will take care of the faith that results. btw, what exactly is conversion? This reformed language of 'conversion' doesn't sound Lutheran to me. Lutherans speak of justification and sanctification. Justification is all Jesus' work. Sanctification is something with which our new man in Christ cooperates. Vocation is how God works to bring Jesus to people and people to Jesus, both unbelievers and believers alike. Have we forgotten how to speak as Lutherans? As we are living and relating to people, they will ask us questions and we need to be able to clearly explain why we speak the way we do. Lutheranese is not a different language. It is a different frame of mind. Lutheranese is a beautiful, faithful, Biblical frame. We need to spend time learning how to explain this frame of mind to all different cultures, rather than reaching for other non-Lutheran frames on the wall. Since we have confidence in what God promises we should seek more uniformity in our worship practices to demonstrate greater confidence in the power of God's means of grace to do what God promises. This way our worship practice would appeal to more than one specific cultural group. The historic liturgies and hymns do this because they are foreign to all our American sub-cultures. God is holy, what's wrong with treating Him that way?
thanks for the opportunity to share my thoughts and engage in this conversation at the district level without requiring time of a long road trip, the cost of a hotel, and travel food. This is a good sign of your desire to be a better steward of what the Lord has provided through modern technology. Don't fear the technology. Kindly speak the truth and suffer the consequences along with the rest of us in the parish.
Participation makes people feel welcome and may help keep them around as the Holy Spirit works through Word and Sacrament to convert the soul. The book's theology sounds less than Arminian, clearly not Reformed. Reminds me of materials a few years ago that talked about conversion as a process and sought to identify the steps in that process. Nice to see what peple are writing. They stimulate thinking. There's no question that appropriate involvement can help maintain a person's regular exposure to Word and Sacrament. Defining appropriate involvement may be the challenge.
Amen Brother Krentz! For years in the secular world social networking has become so prevalent that it is talked about all the time. There are even courses one can take on social networking. It is getting to know someone through conversations. It is through involvement in the community, workplace, or social gatherings that people build a relationship. When participation and experiences in networking happens it leads to a sense of trust, belonging and acceptance by a group of friends, co-workers or social networkers. So using these social gifts in our everyday life is what makes us disciples. It is easy to be a disciple when you know how to network. Remember, we are only the seed planters – the Holy Spirit will do the work! If you just get out of your box – meet and greet others telling them about Jesus becomes as easy as telling someone about your spouse, kids, loved ones, pets, or anything you have in common – and who would not agree that Jesus is the best friend that binds us all together! He is our most loved because He first loved us – why not tell the world!
Dear Propitiated
Thanks for taking the time to respond. You said: "this is telling me all we gotta do is add some new means of grace (now called a means of discipleship(?)) through which the Holy Spirit is expected to work to make disciples. And now these new means are more about the works people do to create faith?"
Like you, I hold that the only Means of Grace are God's Word and the Sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper. The use of the word "means" in point #5 is probably better stated "may expose people to the Means the Holy Spirit uses to bring someone to faith." and I have changed the post. Thanks for your correction.
However, more and more unchurched people today are never exposed to God's Word. If they have never heard what God says about their sin and Christ's perfect sacrifice for their sin, (Justification)they will not believe and never desire or receive the Sacraments. You also said "We are here to bring Jesus to people and to bring people to Jesus." I could not agree more! I also agree that "the Holy Spirit will take care of the faith that results." The Holy Spirit works through people. Romans 10:14 "How then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard?" By allowing and even encouraging those who have not yet been brought to faith by the Holy Spirit to participate in the life of the church, the spiritually curious person spends time around Christians who love him/her and share God's Word with them and through that Word the Spirit can bring faith and life change!
Hi, Scott Seidler, here...Pastor at Concordia in Kirkwood, MO. Hope you Texans don't mind an interloper--and we are praying for all of you fervently in the face of these hurricanes.
At CK, when asked about how to become a member, we are learning to respond "membership means participation". This mantra gets at precisely the point you are trying to reinforce/explore, Paul--we have to allow God some time to work.
I believe in the Missouri Synod we often hide behind our sacramental theology and believe (erroneously) that applying it is like flipping on a light switch. As soon as the Sacrament is deployed, Poof!, like a parachute it opens up and provides a safe landing.
Not so. Never has that been the "true" theology of Scripture. The Holy Spirit works faith where and WHEN he pleases. That WHEN may take years. How patient will Propitiated be if the years turn into decades? And, for all of us, do we have churches in which a non-Christian can ably withstand perhaps decades of divine hesitation? Or have we limited the duration of WHEN to our own self-defined limits of "a couple weeks" or, worse, the time it takes to teach an adult confirmation class.
Think about this--what if a person's father was a brutal, violent alcoholic. How many years of connection with God and the means of grace (there are only two or three)does it take for that person to understand God as a worthy Father to love?
Think about this--what if a person spends there entire life debt-free, self-made, independent of all assistance. How many years does it take for that person to come and acknowledge they have a debt which they cannot pay.
The arrogance is only partially on the part of those who think we ought to augment the means of grace. The arrogance is equally on those who presume a constraint of time on the means of grace which finite, timed-out human beings ought not presume.
I'll be honest enough to say that CK is only learning, beginning to learn about how long a "WHEN" can last.
BUT, if we are to avoid our own idolatry and allow this Holy Spirit to have His way, then we owe it to Him as His under-shepherds to be patient.
Thanks, Paul, for the challenge.
Point #1 seems to be extending the definition of "discipleship." Although I prefer to think of a disciple as one who has faith in Jesus and (by the Spirit's grace) seeks to follow Him, the term is a side issue.
The (admittedly Law-oriented) question here is, "What boundaries are given between baptized communicants and those not yet being catechized?"
As Lutherans, we would agree that the reception of the Lord's Supper is one of these (probably absurd to the author of the book mentioned).
Even "outsiders" are likely to agree that it is a contradiction of terms for an unbeliever to participate in a 'faith community.' If the 'community' is truly defined by confession of faith, then anyone unable to make that confession must remain an observer. As a result, all who are in charge of public worship should avoid the confusion that would result from involving unbelievers in ways that imply that faith.
The exact boundaries, once specified by family tree for Tabernacle and Temple, are now to be set by love and as complete a knowledge of individual and congregation as possible. That being said, I would not permit someone unready to be baptized to read the Scriptures in the public worship of a standing congregation (in the "disposable" ?! congregations for weddings and funerals, more latitude may be warranted). Not only having an unbeliever reading Scripture dishonors that function, but it is likely to cause the unbeliever to go against conscience.
However, we also will all agree that it is our great desire that the "outsider" be baptized, receive faith, be catechized, and receive the Sacrament. Outside public worship, there are many ways that Christians from the same congregation can and should engage guests of that congregation, breaking down stereotypes of Christians and exercising their faith in humility.
To the extent that our congregations resemble exclusive clubs, we need people like Putnam to tip over our tables and drive away our livestock. But while we can learn from other congregations (Corinthians from Macedonians, etc.), "what worked for them," is an untrustworthy standard. Rather, let faith work through love (Gal. 5:6, 13-15), under the Scriptures.
Scott -- Thanks for weighing in. One of our pastors responded directly to me through email about one of his new members who was "discipled from the outside in. Here is what he wrote:
"Because of the interest and kindness of a co-worker, Bryan was "peripherized" from the outside in for St. Paul activities, most notably our Journey To The Manger outreach. For seven years he came, and for seven years the Word worked on his heart. When the Holy Spirit dropped the last cog into place, Bryan's heart was broken for Christ after having been softened in seven years of Christian kindness and inclusion."
I think it speaks elegantly to how the Holy Spirit can work.
Blessings
Paul
Chris
Thanks for your thoughts. You raised some good questions A couple of things you mentioned:
"Point #1 seems to be extending the definition of "discipleship." Although I prefer to think of a disciple as one who has faith in Jesus and (by the Spirit's grace) seeks to follow Him"
"What boundaries are given between baptized communicants and those not yet being catechized?"
"Even "outsiders" are likely to agree that it is a contradiction of terms for an unbeliever to participate in a 'faith community.' If the 'community' is truly defined by confession of faith, then anyone unable to make that confession must remain an observer."
Questions raised for me include:
1. When Jesus called his disciples, what was the status of their faith?
2. When He sent them out two by two to be involved in Kingdom work, did they understand fully who he was?
3. Were the disciples "observers"? Had they confessed their faith?
4. When, even at the Ascension they asked in Acts 1:6 "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?" did they understand what He was commissioning them to do?
5. When would we say catechisis has begun? Can it be experiential (as in serving alongside believers)as well as pedagogical learning in a formal classroom setting?
Blessings
Paul, you said,
"5. When would we say catechesis has begun? Can it be experiential (as in serving alongside believers) as well as pedagogical learning in a formal classroom setting?"
the catechesis Lutherans have usually talked about takes place in a classroom--like Nathaniel under the fig tree. i tried catechesis at a local coffee house once, and my voice was hoarse after 2-hours of speaking over the music and din of other conversations.
The experience of W&S should be treated as holy. Therefore we should stick to clearly defined roles. W&S should be the sacred duty of the men who have been ritely called and ordained. DAILY VOCATION is where laity should be encouraged to do their holy things.
The experiential learning takes place wherever Christians are and especially in the Divine Service where God is most certainly present to forgive sins.
Learning occurs and is affected by how we practice what we preach and teach. The experience that really makes sense to unbelievers is the experience of seeing Lutherans boldly live as they've been taught. Instead of making it seem like the only work that means anything is done in the Divine Service, we should be encouraging members to spend time in the Word (experiencing the Word) everyday in their homes and invite Sunday visitors, friends, neighbors, and even vagabonds over for dinner so they can experience Christian living in the world, which may get them to ask about the hope we have in Christ, which opens an opportunity to talk about what Christ has done and how He hand-delivers His forgiveness in the Divine Service where BELIEVERS gather around His W&S. If they understand what's going on, they'll put up with whatever style of worship they're shown. However, if it isn't reverent, it won't seem like we really believe God's holy presence is there to forgive sinners.
Individuals in most LCMS social spheres are much more isolated than ever before. Not many homes are open to strangers these days. This i believe is where we need to concentrate our efforts in preaching and teaching: getting Christians to open their homes so others can see how they live as Christians and ask questions about it. So, how do we get Christians to open their homes to strangers?
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